Sunday, February 22, 2009

LT211: Dig a Little Deeper in the Well


We hit another milestone at LOST TIDBITS. The 8,000th reader has stopped by. It took us about nine months to make it to 4,000 and doubled that in the last two months! Thanks to all the readers. You know what is the next threshold, right? 15,000!

Seriously, thanks to everyone for their interest in one of the best shows to every find its way to a TV screen.


Ben seemed to return to his uncaring way when he quipped, “Who cares?” about the other passengers aboard Flight 316. If Jack had been on the ball he might have thought to himself, “Wait a minute. This guy seems very interested in some things. So why would he shrug these people off as collateral damage? Could it be that his apparent disregard is because he knows things that I don’t know?”

Yes, Jack, I believe you’ve got it! Whenever Jack gets the chance to catch his breath and think it through he should realize that Ben’s attitude was not a lack of caring of the passengers’ death, but his attitude was because he know they would still continue on their way to Guam. At that point, I’d corner the weasel and demand he tell me more of what he knows.

And what if we could have this luxury of squeezing more information out of Ben? Here is how that conversation might go.

JACK: “Sayid, turn those thumb screws another revolution.”
SAYID: “I was waiting for you to ask me.”

JACK: “Now tell me, why don’t you care about those other people on the plane?”
BEN: “Ok, I’ll tell you. They will all be fine.”

SAYID: “Is it because only the first class passengers flashed to the island?”
BEN: “Maybe.”
JACK: “Sayid, get the pliars.”
SAYID: “With pleasure.”

BEN: “No wait, I’ll tell you. They are transported safely to the island.”JACK: “Everyone transported to the island?”
BEN: “Yes Jack. Everyone on board that plane is a recruit for the Dharma Initiative…but many years ago.”


Back in the episode “Man Behind the Curtain” we are shown Ben in a classroom on the island when the room begins to shake and the kids rush to a sort of lockdown.

Consider how the houses also shook during the Book Club meeting when Oceanic Flight 815 was passing overhead. Could the classroom shake then be Ajria Flight 316 passing overhead? This would help date the time the Oceanic 6 are back on the island.

Now this would mean that Ben is a young child at this point in time.

This leads to our first potential time paradox! Either Ben is still on board Flight 316 or there is now two of him on the island. Keep in mind that all we know for sure is the teacher stated the noise was cause by the Hostiles. So maybe not, but the building shaking was pretty reminiscent of the last time a plane came by to visit.

Do you remember Sawyer and Kate were made to help clear a landing strip? Could Ben have had pre-knowledge of a plane needing to land and it was his attempt to be ready for it? Or could this mean even a third plane is coming?


There are plenty of theories flying around this week with one common theme: trading places.

Yes, it is being suggested that Jack’s grandfather is actually an older version of Jack helping him guide his way through the cosmos.

Consider that the nursing home staff warns Jack that granddad keeps running away and going missing. Could this be Jack slipping into his younger version? Could it explain why grandfather really had the shoes? And didn’t the older Shephard mention something about going somewhere for good? Even Jack mentioned he was going away and his grandfather sort of acted like he knew what he meant.

One last comment on Jack needing something of his father…I yelled, “The watch!”. In the Missing Pieces clip Christian gives him a watch before his wedding. Granted, dad didn’t wear it, but at least the connection would have been there since Christian says his father gave it to him.

And while on the shoes…it seems there was a show and a movie called “Deadman’s Shoes” in which the new owner of the shoes takes on the persona of the previous owner. The movie involves lots of imaginary friends in the same vein as Dave.


And another suggestion wonders if Desmond’s Charlie isn’t going to be in a band named Driveshaft one day. I’m not buying this one even if the mole, chin and nose look likes Charlie’s face since it would mean there is an older brother somewhere (or is Penny keeping it a secret?).

To counter this obstacle, could Ben have been successful in killing Penny? While that might seem a little shocking consider the possibilities that come from that:

First, Ben gets revenged. Before we go judging Ben let’s not forget Widmore killed Alex first.

Second, it motivates Desmond back to the island. Imagine Desmond coming to the boat after the bad deed and finding Penny dead. What would Desmond want more than anything now? To find Ben and to kill him. This is the ultimate manipulation by Ben to get the people where he wants them – on the island.

Third, sort of an add-on to the last point…what if Ben called Jack to ask him to grab Locke’s body because Ben had one additional chore to handle. Could the chore have been that Ben needed to get little Charlie to safe place with mommy dead and Desmond not home yet?

Fourth, now little Charlie is in need of foster home. The parents that adopt him (imagine if it was the couple that wanted Claire’s baby originally!) and they already have another child…a boy, named Liam. Hmmm…


If we keep this line of thinking going much longer then everyone will be related to everyone else eventually. Sort of like everyone coming from a single Adam and Eve. Hey, wait a minute...


Ben brought some reading material along with him on the plane. The book is called Ulysses and contains the use of the Trojan horse by tricking the town who welcomes in the deadly gift. This reminded me of Juliet who infiltrated the Survivors camp by staging the apparent gift of cure for Claire. We then learn it was a trick by Ben to gain the trust of the Survivors. That episode was 3.16 in the series.

Jack asks Ben how he can read. Jack meant at a time like this, but Ben shot back, “My mother taught me.” Well, she died in childbirth, so no Ben, she didn’t teach you. Did Ben just reveal his overriding motive on LOST? Is everything he does to get his mother back from the dead? Have you noticed how mothers have taken center stage this season starting Daniel’s mom?


In the original language of the Book of John in the Bible, the word “Thomas” means “twin”.

Sayid isn’t talking because he is mad at Ben for getting him arrested. Why isn’t Hurley in jail for murder…or did getting Sayid arrested clear Hurley in one swift move? So why then take Sayid to Guam? Was he there earlier and killed someone there?

Why didn’t Jack ask Ms. Hawking about that binder?

Why is up with Kate running to some guys arms every time a little trouble comes along? And how about her asking why Jack keeps the shoes that reminds him of guilt? Is it me or does Kate seem to second guess that advice?

What does Ben hold over everyone to get them on board?

What is up with that guy in line behind Jack on the ticket counter? 99% of people would give him a dirty look for taking so much time. This guy says, “I’m sorry”. If he heard enough to want to show some sympathy, then wouldn’t he have heard enough to know that Jack really didn’t care all that much about John?


TIDBITS will always try to respond to reader comments. And we get one today from Anonymous which I’m trying to force him to sign his posts as Hugo. This is mostly because anonymous is one of those words that are hard to remember how to spell. Anyway, here is his thought provoking comments and my feedback.

"Anonymous" here. Thanks for the shout out and glad my feedback fed into your developing theory.


Thus, Ben knowingly put Goodwin (GOODwin) in harms way and arguably knew he would die, and did so over jealousy--or at least motivated. He is complicit in kidnapping and the murder of Anna Lucia and Libby. That's for starters. No comparable evidence for Widmore.

That is a mountain of evidence that no one would want replayed on their judgment day. Don’t forget he pushed Locke/Sawyer to team up on Cooper. He manipulates everyone including Juliet. Sawyer and the pacemaker. I’ve got to go with you on this one. Even Ms. Hawking thinks he lies half the time!


Widmore ethics...two more things to add. First, the young Widmore in Jugghead was Ben-like when he acted to snap his companion’s neck for giving away too much info and 2. We did see the video of him killing/beating someone. But that is it. Ben is way colder.

Well, we could suggest to a jury of his peers that Charles controlled his daughter’s life. He bribed Desmond. He had Alex killed or at least authorized it indirectly. And the young Charles Jones Widmore was very willing to cut off Juliet’s arm if it wasn’t for John’s blade getting in the way.

When it comes to weighing one evil act against another it seems like everyone loses.


I think, further, that the young woman in Jugghead with the others, named Elle is Ms. Hawking. Same basic hair, matching accent. Widmore had her name and addreess in his personal address book, which I thought was a little too personal. She is Daniels mother, we are told, but we don't know who the father is. If Jugghead Elle and Ms. Hawking are the same, did she leave the island because she was knocked up? If she and Widmore left the island together, or with a larger group, he may be Daniels father.

Hmmm…it is the most popular theory, but a friend of mine who posts here as MDJ thinks that Daniel would recognize his own mother even at a younger age. Using the Marty McFly example, he seems to have a point. I’m not so sure I’d recognize my mother at 22, but wouldn’t some sort of instinct or gut feeling take over? Hey, I walk up to strangers all the time because they ring a bell in my head and I can’t let it go.

Also, I’m concerned about the pregnancy point you made because of the island’s curse with mothers. I’ve always thought that conceiving on the island meant death for mom. And if dad is Widmore it would explain his funding Daniel’s research. I guess the biggest problem I have with this is the YUCK Factor! HA!


The airport terminal Juliet met Alpert and Ethan belonged to Hearat Air. Maybe the Others control this company? Who owns Ajira or Oceanic? Because the artwork in Widmores office, that Thomas painted, has a prominent symbol that is very similar to Oceanic's logo. Or it could be a spiral akin to the Orchid logo. The latter is tantalizing since, according to lostpedia, the painting appears in Widmore's office four years before it shows up in Thomas's apartment. Meaning? Time travel implications or Thomas didn't paint it and just owned a copy. Like a poster of Starry Night. If you lean on the it looks like the Oceanic logo side, then figure this nugget in...Widmore had major connections at the airport, whose security officers will "only do exactly as he says." Does he have powers, or just major sway at the airport because he, I don't know, owns an airline?

Just to throw a wrinkle at you for fun…I heard Sun owns Ajira Airlines! No joke. I have not posted it before now because it could be a spoiler, but hey, guessing isn’t spoiling.

And Paik’s company logo reminds people of the Dharma logos as well. We know that Paik and Widmore provided services for Hanso at one time. But I can’t get the feeling out of my head that they had a falling out. Almost as if they were fine using each other, but when push came to shove, Hanso had a soul and Widmore did not.


I dont think the wheel room Locke was in is a mirror opposite of the Ben wheel room. Watch again, Lockes room has icicles on the walls. Further, the scan the Dharma builders did in episode 1 of this season clearly shows the wheel chamber, and there was only the one side.

Maybe mirror isn’t the right word. How about the Bad Twin of the Cold Room? I do like your point about the scan showing just half the room. So, to use only evidence provided we will say it is a half-room that once was cold and once was hot? I wonder which came first…I’d have to guess the hot room. When did it go cold and why?

Was John putting the wheel back on its axis before or after Ben gave it a spin?


Charlotte says she grew up on island with Dharma. She also knew about the well. Did Dharma? Because Dr. Chang is adament that breaching the wheel room would be very bad. But is Dharma found the well, then they would know the room had already been reached.

It is strange how one person knows a certain fact and yet Danielle spends 16 years with some pretty good survival skills and seems like she was still in the dark. Maybe the key to her survival was due to her lack of curiosity. Your comments have got my interest in regard to the timing of these vents…especially about Dr. Chang’s warning.


You’ve got lots of other interesting points that I will take up in other posts. The thing about the bag Miles finds matching up to the drug used to transport recruits to the island is very intriguing.

Nice job and thanks for the feedback.


If you enjoyed this post, please consider clicking on the ad. And be sure to post any comments you have.

Thanks for reading!



Adrian said...


Dude, I am loving this outlet and exchange.

Quick takes:

Daniel did have the Marty moment in Jugghead. It's when they are walking to the bomb and he looks at her and is taken...says she looks sooo familiar.

Yes you can can get pregnant on the island (Sun). You just cant give birth there unless the kid was conceived off-island (Aaron).

Widmore did not kill Alex. Keamy did. Given how the effects of madness that were wiping out much of the rest of the ship and his own signs...I think Keamy's sanity was coming undone. Assuming Widmore did pay and hire Keamy (which I somewhat sold on), was Keamy that shot Alex the professional soldier hired, or an insane rogue?

Alex, lest we forget, was not Ben's child. He kidnapped her. She hated him, told him so. Was seemingly contrite when Locke almost pulled the trigger on Ben.

If Penny really is Widmore's biological daughter, then killer her is, to me, much more personal.

That's it, because I know your plate was full with my mental download last post.

My final, because there always is one, is this: we need an episode that shows Juliet getting her Latin and ass-kicking training. All of the others can seem to do this, especially the latter. Where is their Delta Force training hut? Remember when Ethan kicked Jack's ass in season 1. Kicked it hard. Ethan was a doctor!

KC said...


Good points. Like I said, how can one really compare and weight a list of sins as worst than another list. In fact, can we name ANYONE on this island who has done only good? It would sure be a short list.

Which reminds me...why haven't we heard anything about a list lately?


A "Marty" moment...I'm going use that phrase somehow today when speaking with someone who has no clue was LOST is.


I agree 100% with a flashback that explains Juliet's skills. Some have suggested it would be Jin teaching her since he knows the language and took care of Mikhail one time.

Yes, we should get a bit of Dharma back story showing us the train the doctors and plumbers in firearms, explosives, hand-to-hand combat and literary interpretations (book club).

Until next time...or do we say "Until I've seen you before",