LOOPING TIMELINES
We’ve spent a lot of time lately on time theories, but I have to bring up the fact that loops are gaining in popularity during the off season.
The new twist to share is that some are suggesting the loops are divisible by 4, 8, 16… since Danielle’s distress signal was looping for 16 years. Desmond flashed back 8 years and so on.
If we could pinpoint when Daniel travels back to Dr. Candle in the Comic Con video it could help strengthen some ideas.
Or how about this theory…
LOST IS A CHESS GAME
The producers recently were quoted as saying something along these lines. The admitted that their team had lost some important pieces but that the opponent shouldn’t get to comfortable. He also said their game strategy was simple: they either win or both teams lose. I found that to be interesting.
So does that make Charlie and Boone pawns which the island required to be sacrificed (a very-Chess like term)?
Could we combine looping with the game so that everyone has played this “game” before? Some pieces KNOW they are looping while others remain blind to it?
Consider we have seen Chess played: Hurley and Mr. Eko’s ghost and Jack and Ben.
The board is 8x8 layout.
Black and white pieces.
Each player controls 16 pieces.
In an attempt to explain logic in reverse, some suggest that Ben was checkmated by Keamey and Company. His only move was to turn the wheel and replace a person as the checkmated King. Ben’s choice: John Locke. Yeah, this would mean Locke got conned again and this pales in comparison to what daddy did with his kidney.
DID YOU KNOW?
Readers of TIDBITS know I pay pretty close attention to LOST items but this one slipped right past me until this week. I’ve learned that producers confirmed there are off-island Dharma hatches.
That works nicely into my theory of there being an off-island Time Machine, but I had no clue there was some sort of confirmation.
Of course, Ben and Tom have to get off the island some way.
Also remember the Blast Door map which sort of indicated some tunnels went off to nowhere…but they can’t be physical tunnels because the island just moved and it would be flooding somewhere right now.
COMMENTS
Keep posting those comments and I'll try my best to get to them soon - Sunday or Wednesday!
**
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Enjoy,
KC
Wednesday, October 22, 2008
Saturday, October 18, 2008
LT137: I'm Listening
MEET BEN
Ben is a faithful reader of LOST TIDBITS and after laying out the Stopwatch Theory for the past two weeks, he writes a nice critique that brings up a lot of good points. I'm going to use his post as a basis for this blog.
BE NICE
"Boy, when I first heard you talking about this "theory" I hated it, simply because I hate time paradoxes. I still kinda hate it. But I do admit its fun to think about... a little. I think you've got a lot of holes in parts of your theory, but I do think you have a lot of good points."
Well thanks a lot...I think?
THE SWAN HATCH
"Well, here it goes:So, they first built the Swan hatch time machine(TM) somewhere in 1984...makes sense. Every 108 minutes, the TM takes the island back to the same point in 1984.When the Swan hatch imploded, it allowed the island to continue on its timeline.
At first, I was willing to accept the increased island time rate too. However, if it did, then Penny and Widmore's chumps would have found the island (off-island time) without the aid of Charlie's shutting down the Looking Glass. I think that's what the TM was for in the first place...to hide the island from the outside world."
I do agree that the Swan Hatch was there to control the electromagnetic (EM) capabilities. You are pointing out that the main function of the Swan Hatch was to power the invisibility shield. I suggested in my theory that it powered the time machine in the Orchid Hatch. Could it do both? It seems like quite the powerful energy supply. And consider that the Swan Hatch might not have just been an on/off switch, but a regulator. The power could be flowing to all stations.
So the question sort of become what is meant by "power". Let's give it the traditional meaning, but also consider the potential for non-traditional uses due to the electromagnetic properties. It is with this energy source that time and space can theoretically be manipulated.
In a schematic, the Swan is the energy plant and it powers the Orchid's time machine and the Looking Glass' invisibility/blocking machine and all the other hatches. The same way electromagnetic properties allow an island to remain hidden is the same general explanation how the Swan's electromagnetic properties allow an island to remain in 1984.
WARPED BY TIME EVENTS
"I still think the crashed plane was staged..."
If I get your meaning, you are talking about Flight 815 flying from the present and into a bubble of 1984 time and how that would create a twin...or not. There does seem to be a lot of evidence suggesting the Sundra Trench plane is staged. The missing wedding ring on the pilot's finger that Frank shares with us is one example. Consider him a good guy and we have a bad guy, Tom, telling Michael he has proof that Widmore staged it. So, yeah, if both sides are telling us it was staged, then it was staged.
Meaning that the real Flight 815 hit the time bubble/force field and simply crashed. No twin plane. No cloned Flight 815 heading further west to make it to the gulf of India. I'll go with you that because for the most part it doesn't matter since everyone in real-time died minutes later anyway. Now if we saw two Jack's walking around on and off island, that would be cool.
In summary, I think my theory still works as long as the mass/matter exists in both 2004 and 1984.
LOCKE'S FATHER
"I don't agree with the John vanishing in a poof of logic if he killed his father...the man still died, and that would have affected John's existence. I know how much you wanted to use Hitchhiker's God-logic paradox, but...NO. That was a stupid idea then, and its a bad one now."
First, am I that transparent you picked up my admiration for Arthur Dent and Ford Prefect. Then you also know I enjoy one of the LOST numbers being 42.
Next, to your point. While I can't prove postive that the twin plane aspect it accurate and there does exist evidence to the contrary...with this point I'm not so willing to concede. Consider these points as proof positive:
* The producers have told us there would be no time paradox (sorry, I forget the official term for the concept you can't kill your grandfather in the past since you wouldn't exist to be able to travel back thingy) so in a sense they confirm John can't kill his father.
* John couldn't kill his father. I mean on the show, he couldn't do it. That may be due to his morals or some personal code of conduct, but the bottom line is he couldn't kill his father. That leaves the door open to the possible interpretation that he couldn't kill his father due to the producer's verbal clue.
* Michael couldn't kill himself. Without getting ecclesiastical here, SOMETHING controlled Michael's appointed time of death. But the relevant evidence is that time paradoxes wouldn't take place which futher strengthens the theory that John Locke couldn't kill Anthony Cooper with his own hands.
Now it is mind boggling to me that Sawyer can waltz over and strangle the guy, but not Locke. Perhaps the rule on the whiteboard at the LOST writer's offices simply require strict time paradox avoidance. The scene with Sawyer could be intended to share one of the rules because I believe every scene, like every thing, happens for a reason. :)
BACK AT YOU
"Here's some theories of my own that could apply to yours.
*I think we need to apply Mrs. Hawking's law more.
The universe needed those particular people to end up on that island, in order to course-correct itself, which is to get rid of the power-hungry Ben somehow. What better than to have them all in one place (the plane) and push them back in time to 1984, during Desmond's accidental episode.Then the universe sends a parachute of food, sent in 1984, and being received when the survivors needed it. Faraday's rocket exp. is the universe telling Faraday not to expect things to arrive on the island when he thinks they should. Then the universe brings back the Doctor's body, to accelerate the survivors' actions. And then it allowed W's chumps to get on the island for the same reason.I think the universe is also responsible for people's sightings of ghosts. A necessity to get people off their asses. John and Hurley seem to need it the most lol.When they get off the island, they are re-sent to the future, to whenever their minds would think the world is continuing. In other words, their minds are on the off-island stopwatch--I think that's what you were trying to say early in this post.(PS:I also think that anything electronic/radioactive is also on the off-island stopwatch, hence Danielle's continued distress call, the looking glass's operation, and the Jack+Penelope's radio contact.)(PPS:Why would Ben tell his people that the Looking Glass wasn't operational?)"
The main gist I kept picking up was your term universe and identifying it as the controller of all things - getting people on the plane and stopping Ben, getting Keamy's men to stop Ben, etc. In essence we are saying an Intelligent Design was involved. It will be interesting to see if our "mythology" ends up being explain as 1's and 0's on a chalkboard or in a Matrix-like computer. We obviously have to wait to see who or what is in control of all things.
When you expand this to include ALL events it is a brain stroke waiting to happen. I mean "Fate" caused the bus to hit Juliet's husband? "Fate" made Sun turn around for impending flight? I can get the idea of Fate recruiting converts to assist pushing people in the direction "Fate" wanted them to go, but really? Some invisible hand? I sense instead the basic premise will come down Fate versus Science and mathematics will explain that the sun is a celestial body instead of guy in a flaming chariot. At least I'm cheering for that side! LOL!
You and I are on the same page in regard to the stopwatch examples you gave.
BRAINSTORMING
"Here's another idea... the icy wheel room was another TM, but built in ancient times, probably when that giant statue w/4toes was built. When Ben pushed the wheel, he brought the island back to the time when that TM was built, hence, causing the island to disappear.Get where I'm going? It didn't move locations, it went back in time. And it will never eventually make it past 1984, which is why it is unseen to everyone in the present.I think you're off with the overlapping time killing Alex theory. If anything, it was a course correction required for some end or other. I think it's a swing and a miss for Rule 7."
I'm right with you on the island not being visible due to time. Basically, you are right on the mark that the island didn't move locations it moved in time. We are in agreement with the premise that you can't go back prior to when a TM was built. Your suggestion that the Time Machine was built centuries early allows for a larger window of time jumping. If true, then it does disqualify the time overlapping for Alex. Plus the younger boy and girl are still alive and they definitely would have their time overlapped by now...well, now that I think about, since the Swan Hatch imploded we haven't ever seen the children, now have we? I believe they have been asked about a time or two, but they were never shown, were they? Hmmm...
Leaving Alex explained as course correction is fine with me. Don't you think Ben's line about changing the rules has a bit more meaning though? And, Something had to control the rules and change them.
THE VIDEO
"BTW, what Comic Con video are you talking about? I've never seen one with Daniel in it."
Oh, you are going to enjoy this one. Here is a link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo6Q7gzUjI8
It clearly is Daniel's voice. Well, as clear as its going to get. HA!
Some suggestion the baby Candle asks to be removed from the room could be Miles...like father, like son. Others imagine they see Charlotte in the video. But it strongly suggests that Daniel travels back in time - is somewhat of a controlled fashion and leave it to him to be the one to pull that off. He warns Marvin and seems as if he has to leave soon or at least some wormhole can't stay open longer. It could be Daniel back when he was really like 21 math whiz and not the beared version of 2004/1984/whatever time. Wow, this gets complicated.
Anyway, enjoy the video.
CLOSING THOUGHTS
"One last thought...Jack, Hurley and the others saw the island disappear, they were still on the island clock. I think they were close enough to be on the clock, but not close enough to be taken back with it.Well, those are my thoughts, I hope you made it through all of them. I'd like some feedback too.If there's something more to your theory that you'd like to discuss, just reply to this comment or put it in your next post.
'Til next time,Ben aka "B""
Well, B, you brought up a lot of interesting points. I hope I gave you something to chew on in my responses. Might post a few extra blogs as other ideas come to my mind.
**
If you enjoy this post, please click on an ad in the upper-right hand corner on your way out. This also helps be steer content in the direction of those kinds of posts you like. Thanks so much and keep reading!
Enjoy,
KC
Wednesday, October 15, 2008
LT136: I Want Some Answers
I believe this is the fourth post in a row concerning the Stopwatch Theory that is sort of being worked out as I write these posts. I guess that isn’t very convincing that we are going to end up with anything solid, but hope you have enjoyed the thought process unfold. If you missed the beginning of this, it might be worthwhile to go back and re-read the past few posts. Today’s post winds down the theory string by showing some examples of how the Stopwatch Theory explains things.
IN SUMMARY
The short summary is that the Stopwatch Theory is really searching for a set of rules that I imagine the writers of LOST have written on some whiteboard in their offices. So far we surmise that the rules include…
RULE 1: You can’t change the past, present or future fundamentally
For example, Locke was truly unable to kill his father, Anthony Cooper, when his daddy showed up by surprise. This is because of Rule 1, which handles the chicken-or-the-egg paradox. You can’t very well kill someone who is going to be your father eventually, because then you wouldn’t be here to pull the trigger.
Even if the rule did allow something this drastic, what would we expect to happen? My guess is the second Locke slides the knife across daddy’s neck, John would cease to exist, vanish, and disappear in a poof of logic.
So how was Sawyer able to kill a man that is actually alive in 1984? I believe because the rule requires a direct impact and there was none. Since Sawyer was killing his parent’s con man, the actions don’t change anyone’s life course fundamentally. Sawyer’s mother would still be conned by someone else. Sawyer’s father would still commit a murder-suicide. Sawyer would still shoot a man the thought was the real Sawyer.
Mrs. Hawkings tell us another rule which we must apply:
RULE 2: Fate can make course corrections.
Perhaps the idea was to give the writers some leeway. I think if you look for true paradoxes (like Sawyer killing his father before his father became his father) you won’t find many. The producers of LOST have promised as much.
But Mrs. Hawkings’ rule allows for minor course corrections.
RULE 3: The Island Box (or Bubble) is preserved in 1984.
One piece of evidence to this is the Noah’s Ark Effect. Since the Swan Orientation tape we have been aware of the six areas of scientific study the DeGroots would be conducting. One area of study mentioned was zoology.
Add in the talk on the show about the world coming to an end all the time and you get an island that is going to act like a life raft for mankind…and animal-kind. The polar bears and bunnies are there to conduct zoology tests. The tests probably have to do with the impact and consequences of the time paradoxes. We have a sort of Noah’s Ark.
This fits nicely with the religious themes that have emerged as well.
RULE 4: You can never travel further back than when the time machines were created.
The two time machines, the Left and the Right, might best be considered as portals. The Left is frozen in time in the year 1984 in honor of the famous book. This time machine encompasses the island.
The Right time machine or portal is located somewhere in real time. When the Survivors of Flight 815 crashed, it was September 22, 2004. Time keeps moving as we are use to observing it behave every day. When 30 days passed on the island, 30 days passed off the island.
However, the Left Time Machine – which is the island – keeps getting reset to some date in 1984. It ages normally with the outside world for about 105-107 minutes, then some guy in a hatch resets the space-time continuum to the beginning point. This gives time travel a reference point.
It also gives time travelers a maximum date that one can travel back to. This is due to the reason that if you travelled to 1970, neither time machine existed yet, so you can’t complete the cycle. That’s a fundamental change directly affecting the time traveler, so jumping prior to 1984 is a no-no.
RULE 5: The Swan hatch hasn’t reset the Left Stopwatch for about a month.
For the sake of explanation, let’s assume September 22 in 1984 is the day the time machines came on line. Exactly 20 years later Oceanic airline sends a plane through the Island event horizon and we get copies/twins/parallel/clones of everything on board that plane.
For the next two months or so, the Survivors observe approximately 60 sunrises and sunsets. They think the calendar would read November 27, 2004. But it doesn’t. The execute button in the Swan Hatch has been resetting the calendar to September 22, 1984.
Desmond believes the same thing which is why he asks Locke what day their plane crashed. The computers in the hatch have been “keeping time” for Desmond – just like everyone’s watch because that is how time is perceived by humans. But the calendar is not advancing. It is like Groundhog Day except none of the events repeat – yeah, think about that one for a minute.
Once the Swan hatch imploded it was November 27, 2004, off the island and in the real world. From that point on the island calendar and the real-world calendar advanced in unison.
So the calendar on the island would now read somewhere in late October 1984 because the Swan hatch has been idle for about a month.
THE RULES HAVE CHANGED
I’m not sure of Ben doesn’t recognize this even though he saw the sky’s appearance when the Swan hatch imploded. Or maybe Ben didn’t know the exact impact this would have.
The phrase Ben used about changing the rules has stuck in my crawl. I think the Stopwatch Theory might address this. The Left Stopwatch is no longer being reset by the holder of it. This means that the island’s time is catching up with real-world time. Ok, it isn’t “catching up” because it can’t go faster than fast (think NFL combine)…but it can at least stay even with it. For decades the island remained a fixed point in time. Now it is advancing and real-world rate.
This means the island’s timeline is beginning to overlap with real-world events. I believe the result of this will be disastrous. Paradoxes are forming and they need to be rectified by Fate. This is what John alludes to as “terrible things have happened since the Oceanic 6 left (or the island moved, you pick).”
Ben has already witnessed one such “course correction” which is now required as the island overlaps time that has already existed: Alex dying.
What would strengthen this line of thought is if the show begins telling us more events that happened back when the time machines were built…and soon after they were put in operation. The Comic Con video does exactly that. The tape sounds like Daniel is back in time convincing a confused but believing Marvin Candle that he is from the future.
LOOP, DUDE, LOOP
You may recall Hurley’s plea to Jack to be kept in the loop – the inner circle of leadership that has formed in this tiny society.
And we have talked plenty about time loops.
And past LOST TIDBITS have explored how especially Jack has been in a loop.
And now Daniel actually having travelled back in time (pre-time machine is yet to be discovered) suggests ability to re-live or loop back in time.
Even the show’s original title was “The Circle”.
RULE 6: There is only one time loop for Survivors.
I propose this rule is included on the Writer’s Whiteboard. This is because we have one set of twins that passed through a time warp, not triplets.
This gets a bit confusing, but consider this: if Daniel did travel back to warn Marvin Candle of his impending doom, he can’t go back a few days later and try a better warning. Or because of other rules already offered, it wouldn’t do any good since fundamental changes are required.
And we have stated that the Left Stopwatch is being reset, so we have thousands of time loops of 108 minute durations. And let’s not forget that Sayid was able to calculate a passage of 16 years from the crazy French lady’s transmission.
But the Survivors are limited to two timelines, no more and no less.
RULE 7: You can outlive yourself, but you probably can’t pre-date yourself.
The only people at risk here would be the young ones like Claire…or anyone else around the age of 20 (2004 – 1984 = 20 years). So Daniel CAN go back to 1984 since he really was alive then. But he can’t travel back to a point prior to his birth.
In the real-world we know (?) the Survivors died in the crash.
CONTRADICTION ALERT: Frank, the pilot, says he recognized the pilot as a fraud since the real pilot always wore a ring. Not sure what to do with this other than to agree this plane was staged, but stick with me.
If they truly died, and Frank was merely mistaken which we could be told later is the case, then we know everyone’s real-world outcome: dead. So we know your “second copy” can live on…in the Left side of the world, the island. This is why returning was such a big deal.
See, there is no real fundamental impact with having dead people still being alive since dead people don’t impact the future very well or much! But Father Time and Mother Fate are still up in arms about having to deal with it. Without a direct conflict they are able to re-enter the real world (which is about 60 days into the future to the Oceanic 6 but they just don’t realize it).
This is why Michael’s mother states, “You disappear for a couple of months…we don’t hear anything from you…and then you show up at my door.” Oh, dear mother, he didn’t show up because he was dead at the bottom of the ocean.
This stuff should remind you of the Sixth Sense. It really looks like they are interacting until we find out they weren’t. Brilliant!
BEN AND THE TIME JUMP
Real world calendar: December 30, 2004.
Island calendar: October 30, 1984.
When Ben walked up to the hotel counter to check in he had to ask the date because since the Swan hatch stopped resetting the Left Stopwatch, island passage had begun to move forward. This throws off the calculation in much the same way passing through the Island Snow Globe affects time oddly. History is being re-written for a second time and this isn’t good. I believe Ben could control exactly where he time travelled before the Swan went boom.
I’ve been trying to formulate a Rule for this, but so far find too many contradictions.
CALENDAR ADVANCES BUT AT DIFFERENT RATES?
My final thought to share is that the time rate is different for the island considering its odd properties.
To address this we should remember two past events: the rocket and the doc.
The rocket fired outside the bubble and took longer – as perceived by the island – than expected.
The doc with a throat disorder floated on shore before the copy of him on the boat showed up.
This stuff reinforces the Stopwatch Theory which says a copy or clone is made when being in the present you cross a boundary into the past. The 305 degrees seems to mitigate the impact, but any other entry and time goes wacky.
The challenge is that it rushes ahead for the doc showing up early and the rocket showing up late. I think the helicopter ride Des and Sayid made with Frank reinforces this as well. Recall that much of the explanation to events from the show has involved radiation. Now think back to any earlier post of a science project that involved radioactive poison, a cat and a sealed lead box.
So does time rush forward or backwards? Not sure yet. Both, it seems for now.
One piece of this we should focus on is that either explanation confirms that time moves strange. This concept easily fits with time running at twice the speed on the island in an attempt to catch-up with time.
So…the real-word moved 30 days from Swan implosion to Ben turning the wheel. Yet, Ben jumped ten months further than that. This is a factor of roughly 10 times the “make-up rate”.
CONCLUSION
I hoped you enjoyed the Stopwatch Theory. If you have any ideas to supplement or refute points, please post a comment. And you know if you keep reading LOST TIDBITS you’ll not miss out on any follow-ups to the Rules. After all, we have four more months to spend together before LOST returns.
**
If you enjoy this post, please click on an ad in the upper-right hand corner on your way out. This also helps be steer content in the direction of those kinds of posts you like. Thanks so much and keep reading!
Enjoy,
KC
IN SUMMARY
The short summary is that the Stopwatch Theory is really searching for a set of rules that I imagine the writers of LOST have written on some whiteboard in their offices. So far we surmise that the rules include…
RULE 1: You can’t change the past, present or future fundamentally
For example, Locke was truly unable to kill his father, Anthony Cooper, when his daddy showed up by surprise. This is because of Rule 1, which handles the chicken-or-the-egg paradox. You can’t very well kill someone who is going to be your father eventually, because then you wouldn’t be here to pull the trigger.
Even if the rule did allow something this drastic, what would we expect to happen? My guess is the second Locke slides the knife across daddy’s neck, John would cease to exist, vanish, and disappear in a poof of logic.
So how was Sawyer able to kill a man that is actually alive in 1984? I believe because the rule requires a direct impact and there was none. Since Sawyer was killing his parent’s con man, the actions don’t change anyone’s life course fundamentally. Sawyer’s mother would still be conned by someone else. Sawyer’s father would still commit a murder-suicide. Sawyer would still shoot a man the thought was the real Sawyer.
Mrs. Hawkings tell us another rule which we must apply:
RULE 2: Fate can make course corrections.
Perhaps the idea was to give the writers some leeway. I think if you look for true paradoxes (like Sawyer killing his father before his father became his father) you won’t find many. The producers of LOST have promised as much.
But Mrs. Hawkings’ rule allows for minor course corrections.
RULE 3: The Island Box (or Bubble) is preserved in 1984.
One piece of evidence to this is the Noah’s Ark Effect. Since the Swan Orientation tape we have been aware of the six areas of scientific study the DeGroots would be conducting. One area of study mentioned was zoology.
Add in the talk on the show about the world coming to an end all the time and you get an island that is going to act like a life raft for mankind…and animal-kind. The polar bears and bunnies are there to conduct zoology tests. The tests probably have to do with the impact and consequences of the time paradoxes. We have a sort of Noah’s Ark.
This fits nicely with the religious themes that have emerged as well.
RULE 4: You can never travel further back than when the time machines were created.
The two time machines, the Left and the Right, might best be considered as portals. The Left is frozen in time in the year 1984 in honor of the famous book. This time machine encompasses the island.
The Right time machine or portal is located somewhere in real time. When the Survivors of Flight 815 crashed, it was September 22, 2004. Time keeps moving as we are use to observing it behave every day. When 30 days passed on the island, 30 days passed off the island.
However, the Left Time Machine – which is the island – keeps getting reset to some date in 1984. It ages normally with the outside world for about 105-107 minutes, then some guy in a hatch resets the space-time continuum to the beginning point. This gives time travel a reference point.
It also gives time travelers a maximum date that one can travel back to. This is due to the reason that if you travelled to 1970, neither time machine existed yet, so you can’t complete the cycle. That’s a fundamental change directly affecting the time traveler, so jumping prior to 1984 is a no-no.
RULE 5: The Swan hatch hasn’t reset the Left Stopwatch for about a month.
For the sake of explanation, let’s assume September 22 in 1984 is the day the time machines came on line. Exactly 20 years later Oceanic airline sends a plane through the Island event horizon and we get copies/twins/parallel/clones of everything on board that plane.
For the next two months or so, the Survivors observe approximately 60 sunrises and sunsets. They think the calendar would read November 27, 2004. But it doesn’t. The execute button in the Swan Hatch has been resetting the calendar to September 22, 1984.
Desmond believes the same thing which is why he asks Locke what day their plane crashed. The computers in the hatch have been “keeping time” for Desmond – just like everyone’s watch because that is how time is perceived by humans. But the calendar is not advancing. It is like Groundhog Day except none of the events repeat – yeah, think about that one for a minute.
Once the Swan hatch imploded it was November 27, 2004, off the island and in the real world. From that point on the island calendar and the real-world calendar advanced in unison.
So the calendar on the island would now read somewhere in late October 1984 because the Swan hatch has been idle for about a month.
THE RULES HAVE CHANGED
I’m not sure of Ben doesn’t recognize this even though he saw the sky’s appearance when the Swan hatch imploded. Or maybe Ben didn’t know the exact impact this would have.
The phrase Ben used about changing the rules has stuck in my crawl. I think the Stopwatch Theory might address this. The Left Stopwatch is no longer being reset by the holder of it. This means that the island’s time is catching up with real-world time. Ok, it isn’t “catching up” because it can’t go faster than fast (think NFL combine)…but it can at least stay even with it. For decades the island remained a fixed point in time. Now it is advancing and real-world rate.
This means the island’s timeline is beginning to overlap with real-world events. I believe the result of this will be disastrous. Paradoxes are forming and they need to be rectified by Fate. This is what John alludes to as “terrible things have happened since the Oceanic 6 left (or the island moved, you pick).”
Ben has already witnessed one such “course correction” which is now required as the island overlaps time that has already existed: Alex dying.
What would strengthen this line of thought is if the show begins telling us more events that happened back when the time machines were built…and soon after they were put in operation. The Comic Con video does exactly that. The tape sounds like Daniel is back in time convincing a confused but believing Marvin Candle that he is from the future.
LOOP, DUDE, LOOP
You may recall Hurley’s plea to Jack to be kept in the loop – the inner circle of leadership that has formed in this tiny society.
And we have talked plenty about time loops.
And past LOST TIDBITS have explored how especially Jack has been in a loop.
And now Daniel actually having travelled back in time (pre-time machine is yet to be discovered) suggests ability to re-live or loop back in time.
Even the show’s original title was “The Circle”.
RULE 6: There is only one time loop for Survivors.
I propose this rule is included on the Writer’s Whiteboard. This is because we have one set of twins that passed through a time warp, not triplets.
This gets a bit confusing, but consider this: if Daniel did travel back to warn Marvin Candle of his impending doom, he can’t go back a few days later and try a better warning. Or because of other rules already offered, it wouldn’t do any good since fundamental changes are required.
And we have stated that the Left Stopwatch is being reset, so we have thousands of time loops of 108 minute durations. And let’s not forget that Sayid was able to calculate a passage of 16 years from the crazy French lady’s transmission.
But the Survivors are limited to two timelines, no more and no less.
RULE 7: You can outlive yourself, but you probably can’t pre-date yourself.
The only people at risk here would be the young ones like Claire…or anyone else around the age of 20 (2004 – 1984 = 20 years). So Daniel CAN go back to 1984 since he really was alive then. But he can’t travel back to a point prior to his birth.
In the real-world we know (?) the Survivors died in the crash.
CONTRADICTION ALERT: Frank, the pilot, says he recognized the pilot as a fraud since the real pilot always wore a ring. Not sure what to do with this other than to agree this plane was staged, but stick with me.
If they truly died, and Frank was merely mistaken which we could be told later is the case, then we know everyone’s real-world outcome: dead. So we know your “second copy” can live on…in the Left side of the world, the island. This is why returning was such a big deal.
See, there is no real fundamental impact with having dead people still being alive since dead people don’t impact the future very well or much! But Father Time and Mother Fate are still up in arms about having to deal with it. Without a direct conflict they are able to re-enter the real world (which is about 60 days into the future to the Oceanic 6 but they just don’t realize it).
This is why Michael’s mother states, “You disappear for a couple of months…we don’t hear anything from you…and then you show up at my door.” Oh, dear mother, he didn’t show up because he was dead at the bottom of the ocean.
This stuff should remind you of the Sixth Sense. It really looks like they are interacting until we find out they weren’t. Brilliant!
BEN AND THE TIME JUMP
Real world calendar: December 30, 2004.
Island calendar: October 30, 1984.
When Ben walked up to the hotel counter to check in he had to ask the date because since the Swan hatch stopped resetting the Left Stopwatch, island passage had begun to move forward. This throws off the calculation in much the same way passing through the Island Snow Globe affects time oddly. History is being re-written for a second time and this isn’t good. I believe Ben could control exactly where he time travelled before the Swan went boom.
I’ve been trying to formulate a Rule for this, but so far find too many contradictions.
CALENDAR ADVANCES BUT AT DIFFERENT RATES?
My final thought to share is that the time rate is different for the island considering its odd properties.
To address this we should remember two past events: the rocket and the doc.
The rocket fired outside the bubble and took longer – as perceived by the island – than expected.
The doc with a throat disorder floated on shore before the copy of him on the boat showed up.
This stuff reinforces the Stopwatch Theory which says a copy or clone is made when being in the present you cross a boundary into the past. The 305 degrees seems to mitigate the impact, but any other entry and time goes wacky.
The challenge is that it rushes ahead for the doc showing up early and the rocket showing up late. I think the helicopter ride Des and Sayid made with Frank reinforces this as well. Recall that much of the explanation to events from the show has involved radiation. Now think back to any earlier post of a science project that involved radioactive poison, a cat and a sealed lead box.
So does time rush forward or backwards? Not sure yet. Both, it seems for now.
One piece of this we should focus on is that either explanation confirms that time moves strange. This concept easily fits with time running at twice the speed on the island in an attempt to catch-up with time.
So…the real-word moved 30 days from Swan implosion to Ben turning the wheel. Yet, Ben jumped ten months further than that. This is a factor of roughly 10 times the “make-up rate”.
CONCLUSION
I hoped you enjoyed the Stopwatch Theory. If you have any ideas to supplement or refute points, please post a comment. And you know if you keep reading LOST TIDBITS you’ll not miss out on any follow-ups to the Rules. After all, we have four more months to spend together before LOST returns.
**
If you enjoy this post, please click on an ad in the upper-right hand corner on your way out. This also helps be steer content in the direction of those kinds of posts you like. Thanks so much and keep reading!
Enjoy,
KC
Sunday, October 12, 2008
LT135: Time Waits For No One
This blog has been exploring the Stopwatch Theory, so it might benefit you to go back and read the last couple of posts to get caught up.
THEY DON’T KNOW TIME HAS STOOD STILL
The Survivors crashed on September 22, 2004, to a place that the date was 1984. When the plane crash scenes are carefully scrutinized by obsessed fans, many have notice a problem with the time of day and specifically, the sun. Based on departure time from Sydney, flight time in based on the pilot’s description, course correction, and so on…it should have been nearly night time, but it appears to be almost high noon.
Two possibilities exist…the producers at the time of the filming of the first episode may not have taken the care to line up the position of the sun into his filming schedule. The producers and writers likely didn’t know at the time how ravenous their fans would become. This is likely the best explanation. However, it doesn’t refute the Stopwatch Theory in that it might strengthen its argument.
If they jumped dates, why not time of day as well? They left the real world at 8 pm on the 22nd of 2004 and entered any day at noon in 1984.
POSSIBLE CONFLICT
Time does pass on the island. If the time is being reset to noon on a day in 1984, then why aren’t they reliving the same day over and over again? To be precise, why aren’t they reliving the same 108 minutes over and over? Shouldn’t it always be between noon and 1:40 p.m.?
In order to resolve this conflict we have to remind ourselves that some scouts have stopwatches that read 4.3 and others show 4.4 on the stopwatch…for the same event being measured.
We also can consider the theories behind the space-time continuum which basically says whatever can happen can. So, that provides a lot of liberty for the writers. But it throws a wrench into why Richard doesn’t age. If Locke’s beard and Sawyer’s hair grows then time is moving forward, but time isn’t moving. Yeah, hurts my head too!
SURVIVAL FILES
I’ve always been curious on how they have nice thick files on the Survivors. We know when the plane went down they only then began to get a list compiled. The first time we see Jack have his file revealed was about two months top. How did a remote island with restricted communication get that much background information in 60 days? It appeared that had detailed information. That would take time.
And time is what they have for the island remains in 1984 as the Left Stopwatch keeps getting reset. The outside world, the Right Stopwatch just keeps on ticking. So the Others can jump into Left Time Machine in 1984 and zap to present day through the Right Time Machine. The Others could take ten years to research the passengers if they felt like it. Take 20 years, because when they are ready, they can zap back to the island in 1984 and act like they snapped their fingers and the files magically appeared.
OTHER BLINKS OF THE EYE
This is how Cooper got to the island. When the passengers of Flight 815 dropped out of “real time” it was September 2004. They now THINK three months have past and in the “real world” it has. Time has kept moving forward. So, Ben jumps into the Left Time Machine and re-enters the real world in December 2004. Grabs Anthony Cooper and says, “You are coming with me.”
I propose this is how all people get to and from the island – with the Left Time Machine. It makes it easy to get another historical, like a World Series result and bring it back to the same frozen snow globe.
Another blink of the eye is that Locke can walk. Of course he could walk…in 1984.
Here’s another one: in a blink of an eye the Oceanic plane went down and everyone on board died just as seen on the news footage. That’s exactly what happened. As the plane goes down we have a twin plane enters a magnetic field that returns it to 1984.
ANOTHER CONFLICT
Some people died on the “island plane”. Sure, time still marches on for anyone inside the island’s box. The calendar just doesn’t move. The Left Stopwatch keeps getting reset although passes.
This just means some passengers were going to die from impact. Nothing more and nothing less. Joanna can still drown. Boone can still bleed out. The Marshall can die twice.
But wouldn’t this still mean that the passengers who died on the island in 1984 also died on September 22, 2004? Yes. If these passengers had children in the real world, would they suddenly vanish because the parent had actually died in 1984? No, because the island doesn’t let you change the future. The producers have been clear on this point…what we have seen in flash forwards is what will still happen when that day is today…Jake isn’t going to change from what we have seen already.
And Desmond’s jewelry clerk, aka Mrs. Hawkings, aka Mrs. Time, confirms this. You can “course correct”, but you can’t go back in time and shoot your grandfather because that would mean you never happened. Again, the producers have promised to avoid those types of paradoxes.
But one more conflict comes up…why isn’t Richard aging if time is moving forward even though the calendar is not? Resetting the clock would seem to support eternal life, but contradicts everything we observe with life…aging is going on here. Sorry, can’t answer them all, but perhaps this contradiction when resolved will tell us. And do keep in mind that he is one of the rare examples of non-aging…I’d like two examples before we assume this is another rule written on the writer’s whiteboard.
RIGHT TIME MACHINE
Little has been said about the right time machine so far and for good reason. I have no clue to where it might be located. A good guess would focus on the cities mentioned in the show: Tallahassee, Florida; Ames, Iowa; London, England, etc. Portland, Oregon, is a real solid bet.
Perhaps the summer game, The Project, might help answer some of this background stuff on where the home office of Dharma Initiative resides.
TIME MOVES, CALENDAR FROZEN
We know time moves forward as the observer views things because Claire finally went to term and delivered a baby. I fully expected to see Sun showing in a few weeks had she stuck around. Life is growing on this island.
So why all the dead babies and mothers who conceive on the island? The answer is the same as to why the passengers of the second Flight 815 didn’t really die in 1984. The “real” 1984 was 20 years ago for the guy in Seat 3B who is still sitting in his seat at the bottom of the Sundra Trench.
What you do on the island – whose calendar is 1984 – doesn’t change the real world facts happening in the real world. And because of this the laws of science can’t allow a new life to be born on the island in this mirror year of 1984. Sun is indeed dead if she would remain on the island. Sorry, but you weren’t pregnant in 1984, so you can’t be pregnant in 1984.
Again, this is why John can walk because he could in 1984 – it works both ways. Rose is feeling much better not because the magic island is healing her, it is because she didn’t have cancer in 1984.
I can’t layout all the specific rules but hopefully you see the possibilities.
THE CHILDREN
If we stay consistent with what we have laid out, then how the heck is Walt even on the island? He wasn’t even born yet in 1984.
Assuming the time machines were made operational in 1984, anyone under the age of 20 should not exist on the island for those who were on the Oceanic plane.
One explanation is that a “carbon copy” of plane and passengers were made, so that overrules any direct tie to 1984. The survivors simply wake up obvious to the real date on Mystery Island. Walt was on board, so Walt is on the island.
It is interesting to note however, that the Others pay so much attention to the children. All have been kidnapped. Notice the degree of concern isn’t so high that one, Walt, might be allowed to leave. I’ll have to give this some more thought…and ideas?
The Others called Walt special and we have supporting evidence of that. Perhaps the boy and girl with the teddy bear might end up also showing special abilities due to the fact they weren’t around in 1984. Was Karl under the age of 20, I believe so. One gets the feeling the Others believe they are protecting them as if they deaths would have a bad ripple effect. I once thought their interest was test subjects, but I’m liking the role of protector better now. It starts to explain why Ben really is one of the good guys.
NEXT LOST TIDBITS
I plan to wrap-up the Stopwatch Theory with plenty of examples of how this theory can help explain the rules of LOST. Some of the topics will include:
Why Locke couldn’t kill his father any more than you can kill someone who hasn’t had you yet?
Why polar bears make sense being found on the island?
Explorer how time moves when entering the box other than with a Time Machine.
What impact did the Swan imploding have on island time?
Why Ben had to ask the date in Tunisia?
**
If you enjoy this post, please click on an ad in the upper-right hand corner on your way out. This also helps be steer content in the direction of those kinds of posts you like. Thanks so much and keep reading!
Enjoy,
KC
THEY DON’T KNOW TIME HAS STOOD STILL
The Survivors crashed on September 22, 2004, to a place that the date was 1984. When the plane crash scenes are carefully scrutinized by obsessed fans, many have notice a problem with the time of day and specifically, the sun. Based on departure time from Sydney, flight time in based on the pilot’s description, course correction, and so on…it should have been nearly night time, but it appears to be almost high noon.
Two possibilities exist…the producers at the time of the filming of the first episode may not have taken the care to line up the position of the sun into his filming schedule. The producers and writers likely didn’t know at the time how ravenous their fans would become. This is likely the best explanation. However, it doesn’t refute the Stopwatch Theory in that it might strengthen its argument.
If they jumped dates, why not time of day as well? They left the real world at 8 pm on the 22nd of 2004 and entered any day at noon in 1984.
POSSIBLE CONFLICT
Time does pass on the island. If the time is being reset to noon on a day in 1984, then why aren’t they reliving the same day over and over again? To be precise, why aren’t they reliving the same 108 minutes over and over? Shouldn’t it always be between noon and 1:40 p.m.?
In order to resolve this conflict we have to remind ourselves that some scouts have stopwatches that read 4.3 and others show 4.4 on the stopwatch…for the same event being measured.
We also can consider the theories behind the space-time continuum which basically says whatever can happen can. So, that provides a lot of liberty for the writers. But it throws a wrench into why Richard doesn’t age. If Locke’s beard and Sawyer’s hair grows then time is moving forward, but time isn’t moving. Yeah, hurts my head too!
SURVIVAL FILES
I’ve always been curious on how they have nice thick files on the Survivors. We know when the plane went down they only then began to get a list compiled. The first time we see Jack have his file revealed was about two months top. How did a remote island with restricted communication get that much background information in 60 days? It appeared that had detailed information. That would take time.
And time is what they have for the island remains in 1984 as the Left Stopwatch keeps getting reset. The outside world, the Right Stopwatch just keeps on ticking. So the Others can jump into Left Time Machine in 1984 and zap to present day through the Right Time Machine. The Others could take ten years to research the passengers if they felt like it. Take 20 years, because when they are ready, they can zap back to the island in 1984 and act like they snapped their fingers and the files magically appeared.
OTHER BLINKS OF THE EYE
This is how Cooper got to the island. When the passengers of Flight 815 dropped out of “real time” it was September 2004. They now THINK three months have past and in the “real world” it has. Time has kept moving forward. So, Ben jumps into the Left Time Machine and re-enters the real world in December 2004. Grabs Anthony Cooper and says, “You are coming with me.”
I propose this is how all people get to and from the island – with the Left Time Machine. It makes it easy to get another historical, like a World Series result and bring it back to the same frozen snow globe.
Another blink of the eye is that Locke can walk. Of course he could walk…in 1984.
Here’s another one: in a blink of an eye the Oceanic plane went down and everyone on board died just as seen on the news footage. That’s exactly what happened. As the plane goes down we have a twin plane enters a magnetic field that returns it to 1984.
ANOTHER CONFLICT
Some people died on the “island plane”. Sure, time still marches on for anyone inside the island’s box. The calendar just doesn’t move. The Left Stopwatch keeps getting reset although passes.
This just means some passengers were going to die from impact. Nothing more and nothing less. Joanna can still drown. Boone can still bleed out. The Marshall can die twice.
But wouldn’t this still mean that the passengers who died on the island in 1984 also died on September 22, 2004? Yes. If these passengers had children in the real world, would they suddenly vanish because the parent had actually died in 1984? No, because the island doesn’t let you change the future. The producers have been clear on this point…what we have seen in flash forwards is what will still happen when that day is today…Jake isn’t going to change from what we have seen already.
And Desmond’s jewelry clerk, aka Mrs. Hawkings, aka Mrs. Time, confirms this. You can “course correct”, but you can’t go back in time and shoot your grandfather because that would mean you never happened. Again, the producers have promised to avoid those types of paradoxes.
But one more conflict comes up…why isn’t Richard aging if time is moving forward even though the calendar is not? Resetting the clock would seem to support eternal life, but contradicts everything we observe with life…aging is going on here. Sorry, can’t answer them all, but perhaps this contradiction when resolved will tell us. And do keep in mind that he is one of the rare examples of non-aging…I’d like two examples before we assume this is another rule written on the writer’s whiteboard.
RIGHT TIME MACHINE
Little has been said about the right time machine so far and for good reason. I have no clue to where it might be located. A good guess would focus on the cities mentioned in the show: Tallahassee, Florida; Ames, Iowa; London, England, etc. Portland, Oregon, is a real solid bet.
Perhaps the summer game, The Project, might help answer some of this background stuff on where the home office of Dharma Initiative resides.
TIME MOVES, CALENDAR FROZEN
We know time moves forward as the observer views things because Claire finally went to term and delivered a baby. I fully expected to see Sun showing in a few weeks had she stuck around. Life is growing on this island.
So why all the dead babies and mothers who conceive on the island? The answer is the same as to why the passengers of the second Flight 815 didn’t really die in 1984. The “real” 1984 was 20 years ago for the guy in Seat 3B who is still sitting in his seat at the bottom of the Sundra Trench.
What you do on the island – whose calendar is 1984 – doesn’t change the real world facts happening in the real world. And because of this the laws of science can’t allow a new life to be born on the island in this mirror year of 1984. Sun is indeed dead if she would remain on the island. Sorry, but you weren’t pregnant in 1984, so you can’t be pregnant in 1984.
Again, this is why John can walk because he could in 1984 – it works both ways. Rose is feeling much better not because the magic island is healing her, it is because she didn’t have cancer in 1984.
I can’t layout all the specific rules but hopefully you see the possibilities.
THE CHILDREN
If we stay consistent with what we have laid out, then how the heck is Walt even on the island? He wasn’t even born yet in 1984.
Assuming the time machines were made operational in 1984, anyone under the age of 20 should not exist on the island for those who were on the Oceanic plane.
One explanation is that a “carbon copy” of plane and passengers were made, so that overrules any direct tie to 1984. The survivors simply wake up obvious to the real date on Mystery Island. Walt was on board, so Walt is on the island.
It is interesting to note however, that the Others pay so much attention to the children. All have been kidnapped. Notice the degree of concern isn’t so high that one, Walt, might be allowed to leave. I’ll have to give this some more thought…and ideas?
The Others called Walt special and we have supporting evidence of that. Perhaps the boy and girl with the teddy bear might end up also showing special abilities due to the fact they weren’t around in 1984. Was Karl under the age of 20, I believe so. One gets the feeling the Others believe they are protecting them as if they deaths would have a bad ripple effect. I once thought their interest was test subjects, but I’m liking the role of protector better now. It starts to explain why Ben really is one of the good guys.
NEXT LOST TIDBITS
I plan to wrap-up the Stopwatch Theory with plenty of examples of how this theory can help explain the rules of LOST. Some of the topics will include:
Why Locke couldn’t kill his father any more than you can kill someone who hasn’t had you yet?
Why polar bears make sense being found on the island?
Explorer how time moves when entering the box other than with a Time Machine.
What impact did the Swan imploding have on island time?
Why Ben had to ask the date in Tunisia?
**
If you enjoy this post, please click on an ad in the upper-right hand corner on your way out. This also helps be steer content in the direction of those kinds of posts you like. Thanks so much and keep reading!
Enjoy,
KC
Wednesday, October 8, 2008
LT134: Time Machines and Wormholes
This blog continues a theme started in LT133, so be sure to review that post first in order to enjoy this one more.
Another matter we must attend to before jumping into my Stopwatch Theory is that this is a TV show and the producers have made it clear that pseudo-science or science-fiction is involved in this wonderful tale. What we will try to avoid is the temptation to add more “fringe science” than has been suggested on the show. In other words, we will keep it real except where the show specifically tells us to include a certain scientific theory. With Wikipedia, we then can easily quickly any theory floating around out there.
With that said…
WORMHOLES AND TIME MACHINES
Time machines and wormholes have been offered as scientific theory we need to include into the realm of known scientific law. Time machines have directly been mentioned (the Dharma Wheel) and wormholes indirectly (best explanation to time travel and visual clues).
The Stopwatch Theory takes the show’s time travel acknowledgment and tries to make sense of it all. We can accomplish this by suggesting the two stopwatches we are holding are the time machines. The details of HOW time travel happens is really immaterial at this point, so it can be wormholes, cosmic string theory or just some cool CGI effects. The important piece(s) we are after are the RULES the show uses to structure time. I imagine some white board in the offices of the LOST writers with the “Rules of Lost” written on them. Follow those rules, and the show works.
TIMESTAMPING
The Dharma Initiative began in the 1970’s. One of its initiatives was to study the feasibility of time travel. Sometime during the decade, they successfully built a time machine. They built two time machines: Left one and a Right one.
I’ve tried to timestamp this event, but it has been difficult.
We do know the time machines had to have been invented prior to 1981 because the Swan Orientation tape was copyrighted in 1980. The tape mentions “the incident” happening prior to the making of the tape which I take to mean the time machines were in operation during the incident.
You have to get the machines and quasi-science research hatches built. So, it was most likely the time machines were in operation prior to even 1980. Other clues to the date might come from researching the items in the hatches and dating them. But as you will see, that is merely a possibility, not proof.
Keep in mind that the Swan Orientation tape doesn’t really prove anything. It is entirely possible the time machines come later and that they have nothing to do with the “incident”. In fact, a logical progression would suggest the incident should have happened prior to the time machines.
Unfortunately, the best we can timestamp the creation of the two time machines is somewhere in the 1970’s or 1980’s. For the sake of convenience, let’s pick 1984 since it is the title of a book and you know how LOST likes to reference literature.
THE INCIDENT
The section above alluded to a logical progression. If we stop and think how things would have fallen into place we can begin with the DeGroots. They had the knowledge to pull this off. Hanso had the money. What would the checklist look like?
- Find and buy a research island
- Build research hatches
- Hire staff
- Conduct research projects
I propose that we had six major research projects going on in this island which is supported by the hatches as well as Hanso’s website. The Swan hatch was involved with electromagnetic study. It would seem the Swan hatch learned to generate or harness some large magnetic field.
One day in the 1970’s they lost control of this power and this is the “incident” they refer to. As a safeguard they added two new protocols. First, they built a Reset switch which stops the build up of the magnetic force. The build-up then starts over again.
The keyboard was shown as inoperable when the Countdown Timer was outside of that final four minute window. It clearly did not matter if Desmond reset the Timer at 104 minutes. This suggests to me that the research needed the magnetic field to build up to a certain level, but that after 104 minutes it wasn’t safe to continue the build-up. They locked the keyboard at other times, so they could count on a certain levels. We have also seen that 109-ish minutes appear to be within the acceptable range (Lockdown episode).
The second protocol added was the Failsafe key. If push came to shove, then Desmond was under orders to turn that key and blow up the hatch as well as the Magnetic Field Magnifier once and for all.
THE SWAN HATCH
The Swan hatch clearly involved magnets. Perhaps the Magnetic Field Magnifier served as the engine to run the time machines. We think of power planets, but Dharma may have discovered how to harness the energy of magnetic fields to a new level. I read in one of my surfing expeditions where if time travel was possible the “power station” required would have to be the size of Mars.
It doesn’t seem like much of a stretch to conclude the Swan hatch was a magnetic field generator.
Each time Desmond performed his duty in the Swan hatch, he was resetting one of the time machines back to the day they were put in operation: 1984. This is our Left Stopwatch resetting every 108 minutes or so…it keeps getting set back to zero.
THE ORCHID HATCH
To be precise, the Orchid Hatch is our Left Time Machine/Stopwatch. The Swan is the “battery” that runs it.
If the Stopwatch Theory has it right, then the computer button is resetting the Left Time Machine’s timestamp back to 1984. It ages for 108 minutes and then resets. This begins to explain why Richard Alpert never (or rarely) ages. Except this brings up a conflict which wonders, if Richard doesn’t sit inside the time machine then, “Why is he repeating 108 minutes of 1984 over and over?”
THE ISLAND IS WITHIN THE BOX
The concept here is that the whole island is inside a box which also contains the Left Time Machine. Therefore, anything that happens to the Time Machine also affects the Island. Personally, I’m not happy with this explanation until I came across a scientific research that coined the phrase, “Schrodinger’s Cat”.
Wikipedia describes it as, “Schrödinger's cat is a though experiment, often described as a paradox, devised by Austrian physicist Erwin Schrodinger in 1935. It illustrated what he saw as the problem of the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics being applied to everyday objects, in the example of a cat that might be alive or dead, depending on an earlier random event. In the course of developing this experiment, he coined the term entanglement.
The theory is that placing a cat, radioactive poison, and a device to break and release the poison inside a steel and sealed box, if the jar holding the poison were to randomly break up, would the cat be dead or alive?
It gets a little hairy at this point, but the concept I grasped was that radioactive material is such that it operates at the atomic level in unique ways. Science has revealed that atoms spin in all directions at once. It can be left and right at the same time. NOW, let’s ponder the question, “Which answer is correct?” Ok, let’s not.
Atoms can be up and down at the same time. Very unique creatures, to say the least. We have also learned that when you observe or measure an atom it then, conveniently for humans, chooses whether to be either left or right, up or down, etc. I’ve always wondered how we know atoms spin in all directions whenever they are not being observed when it would take observation to know that. But this stuff is not even fringe science, it is readily agreed principle, so let’s scratch our heads and move on.
Being the poison is an atomic-active substance, then anything contained within the thick steel box would share the same fate as the atoms in the radioactive substance. The question becomes is the cat dead or alive the moment the gas is released? Some say both dead and alive is the correct answer. We do know that once the box is opened, we begin to observe and measure the state of the cat and like the atoms, it chooses either dead or alive which are able to ascertain.
I feel there is enough collaborating science to agree that the island is inside some sort of box with the time machine. The time machine is like the radioactive material in that what happens to the time machine happens to everything inside the island box.
And this belief is supported by the references to boxes on the show. One example being the black magic box that Ben mentions and then produces Locke’s father from. And of course, Locke worked in a box company that Hurley owns.
THE ISLAND BOX
What is the island box then? It would seem that the Dharma Checklist for Time Travel required that prior to the time machines, the Dharma team needed to create a time box. Or if you know who Jim Croce was, then “time in a bottle”.
I propose they built a time-space container. This leads to the parallel universe, but that whole angle has little credible scientific support. Einstein’s theory leaves the door open a crack to the possibility of multi-universe’s, but it has been directly mentioned on the show or even indirectly to a documented theory…that I can think of.
With a lack of clues available, the picture in my mind is a large plastic bubble. Perhaps the shape of a biosphere. Or a snow globe. All the references to cold, snow, and ice are references to the snow globe design of the Island box. So, I guess that means more of an Island Globe.
NOTE: We have to be careful here, because just like changing one thing in history can change the future, we must also take care that a simple change from box to globe means we lose the circumstantial evidence offered about Locke’s job and Hurley’s ownership of a box company. Hey, I’m trying to stay pure. If we wanted, we could twist Croce’s song title alongside the bottle full of notes sent with Michael’s raft and say the show is about a Police song, “Message in a Bottle”. HA!
So, let’s keep the change a box because of the reference to Ben’s black box. I just imagine the shape of the influence area is not one of those rules the writers bothered to write on the whiteboard.
NEXT LOST TIDBITS
My next post will explore the Stopwatch Theory a little deeper. If the Left Stopwatch is constantly being reset or “frozen” in 1984 then our Survivors time on the island is not moving one bit while the rest of the world moves on. In the next LOST TIDBITS I hope to explain how the Stopwatch Theory allows the Others years and years of background checks it would take to accumulate files on all the Survivors.
**
If you enjoy this post, please click on an ad in the upper-right hand corner on your way out. This also helps be steer content in the direction of those kinds of posts you like. Thanks so much and keep reading!
Enjoy,
KC
Another matter we must attend to before jumping into my Stopwatch Theory is that this is a TV show and the producers have made it clear that pseudo-science or science-fiction is involved in this wonderful tale. What we will try to avoid is the temptation to add more “fringe science” than has been suggested on the show. In other words, we will keep it real except where the show specifically tells us to include a certain scientific theory. With Wikipedia, we then can easily quickly any theory floating around out there.
With that said…
WORMHOLES AND TIME MACHINES
Time machines and wormholes have been offered as scientific theory we need to include into the realm of known scientific law. Time machines have directly been mentioned (the Dharma Wheel) and wormholes indirectly (best explanation to time travel and visual clues).
The Stopwatch Theory takes the show’s time travel acknowledgment and tries to make sense of it all. We can accomplish this by suggesting the two stopwatches we are holding are the time machines. The details of HOW time travel happens is really immaterial at this point, so it can be wormholes, cosmic string theory or just some cool CGI effects. The important piece(s) we are after are the RULES the show uses to structure time. I imagine some white board in the offices of the LOST writers with the “Rules of Lost” written on them. Follow those rules, and the show works.
TIMESTAMPING
The Dharma Initiative began in the 1970’s. One of its initiatives was to study the feasibility of time travel. Sometime during the decade, they successfully built a time machine. They built two time machines: Left one and a Right one.
I’ve tried to timestamp this event, but it has been difficult.
We do know the time machines had to have been invented prior to 1981 because the Swan Orientation tape was copyrighted in 1980. The tape mentions “the incident” happening prior to the making of the tape which I take to mean the time machines were in operation during the incident.
You have to get the machines and quasi-science research hatches built. So, it was most likely the time machines were in operation prior to even 1980. Other clues to the date might come from researching the items in the hatches and dating them. But as you will see, that is merely a possibility, not proof.
Keep in mind that the Swan Orientation tape doesn’t really prove anything. It is entirely possible the time machines come later and that they have nothing to do with the “incident”. In fact, a logical progression would suggest the incident should have happened prior to the time machines.
Unfortunately, the best we can timestamp the creation of the two time machines is somewhere in the 1970’s or 1980’s. For the sake of convenience, let’s pick 1984 since it is the title of a book and you know how LOST likes to reference literature.
THE INCIDENT
The section above alluded to a logical progression. If we stop and think how things would have fallen into place we can begin with the DeGroots. They had the knowledge to pull this off. Hanso had the money. What would the checklist look like?
- Find and buy a research island
- Build research hatches
- Hire staff
- Conduct research projects
I propose that we had six major research projects going on in this island which is supported by the hatches as well as Hanso’s website. The Swan hatch was involved with electromagnetic study. It would seem the Swan hatch learned to generate or harness some large magnetic field.
One day in the 1970’s they lost control of this power and this is the “incident” they refer to. As a safeguard they added two new protocols. First, they built a Reset switch which stops the build up of the magnetic force. The build-up then starts over again.
The keyboard was shown as inoperable when the Countdown Timer was outside of that final four minute window. It clearly did not matter if Desmond reset the Timer at 104 minutes. This suggests to me that the research needed the magnetic field to build up to a certain level, but that after 104 minutes it wasn’t safe to continue the build-up. They locked the keyboard at other times, so they could count on a certain levels. We have also seen that 109-ish minutes appear to be within the acceptable range (Lockdown episode).
The second protocol added was the Failsafe key. If push came to shove, then Desmond was under orders to turn that key and blow up the hatch as well as the Magnetic Field Magnifier once and for all.
THE SWAN HATCH
The Swan hatch clearly involved magnets. Perhaps the Magnetic Field Magnifier served as the engine to run the time machines. We think of power planets, but Dharma may have discovered how to harness the energy of magnetic fields to a new level. I read in one of my surfing expeditions where if time travel was possible the “power station” required would have to be the size of Mars.
It doesn’t seem like much of a stretch to conclude the Swan hatch was a magnetic field generator.
Each time Desmond performed his duty in the Swan hatch, he was resetting one of the time machines back to the day they were put in operation: 1984. This is our Left Stopwatch resetting every 108 minutes or so…it keeps getting set back to zero.
THE ORCHID HATCH
To be precise, the Orchid Hatch is our Left Time Machine/Stopwatch. The Swan is the “battery” that runs it.
If the Stopwatch Theory has it right, then the computer button is resetting the Left Time Machine’s timestamp back to 1984. It ages for 108 minutes and then resets. This begins to explain why Richard Alpert never (or rarely) ages. Except this brings up a conflict which wonders, if Richard doesn’t sit inside the time machine then, “Why is he repeating 108 minutes of 1984 over and over?”
THE ISLAND IS WITHIN THE BOX
The concept here is that the whole island is inside a box which also contains the Left Time Machine. Therefore, anything that happens to the Time Machine also affects the Island. Personally, I’m not happy with this explanation until I came across a scientific research that coined the phrase, “Schrodinger’s Cat”.
Wikipedia describes it as, “Schrödinger's cat is a though experiment, often described as a paradox, devised by Austrian physicist Erwin Schrodinger in 1935. It illustrated what he saw as the problem of the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics being applied to everyday objects, in the example of a cat that might be alive or dead, depending on an earlier random event. In the course of developing this experiment, he coined the term entanglement.
The theory is that placing a cat, radioactive poison, and a device to break and release the poison inside a steel and sealed box, if the jar holding the poison were to randomly break up, would the cat be dead or alive?
It gets a little hairy at this point, but the concept I grasped was that radioactive material is such that it operates at the atomic level in unique ways. Science has revealed that atoms spin in all directions at once. It can be left and right at the same time. NOW, let’s ponder the question, “Which answer is correct?” Ok, let’s not.
Atoms can be up and down at the same time. Very unique creatures, to say the least. We have also learned that when you observe or measure an atom it then, conveniently for humans, chooses whether to be either left or right, up or down, etc. I’ve always wondered how we know atoms spin in all directions whenever they are not being observed when it would take observation to know that. But this stuff is not even fringe science, it is readily agreed principle, so let’s scratch our heads and move on.
Being the poison is an atomic-active substance, then anything contained within the thick steel box would share the same fate as the atoms in the radioactive substance. The question becomes is the cat dead or alive the moment the gas is released? Some say both dead and alive is the correct answer. We do know that once the box is opened, we begin to observe and measure the state of the cat and like the atoms, it chooses either dead or alive which are able to ascertain.
I feel there is enough collaborating science to agree that the island is inside some sort of box with the time machine. The time machine is like the radioactive material in that what happens to the time machine happens to everything inside the island box.
And this belief is supported by the references to boxes on the show. One example being the black magic box that Ben mentions and then produces Locke’s father from. And of course, Locke worked in a box company that Hurley owns.
THE ISLAND BOX
What is the island box then? It would seem that the Dharma Checklist for Time Travel required that prior to the time machines, the Dharma team needed to create a time box. Or if you know who Jim Croce was, then “time in a bottle”.
I propose they built a time-space container. This leads to the parallel universe, but that whole angle has little credible scientific support. Einstein’s theory leaves the door open a crack to the possibility of multi-universe’s, but it has been directly mentioned on the show or even indirectly to a documented theory…that I can think of.
With a lack of clues available, the picture in my mind is a large plastic bubble. Perhaps the shape of a biosphere. Or a snow globe. All the references to cold, snow, and ice are references to the snow globe design of the Island box. So, I guess that means more of an Island Globe.
NOTE: We have to be careful here, because just like changing one thing in history can change the future, we must also take care that a simple change from box to globe means we lose the circumstantial evidence offered about Locke’s job and Hurley’s ownership of a box company. Hey, I’m trying to stay pure. If we wanted, we could twist Croce’s song title alongside the bottle full of notes sent with Michael’s raft and say the show is about a Police song, “Message in a Bottle”. HA!
So, let’s keep the change a box because of the reference to Ben’s black box. I just imagine the shape of the influence area is not one of those rules the writers bothered to write on the whiteboard.
NEXT LOST TIDBITS
My next post will explore the Stopwatch Theory a little deeper. If the Left Stopwatch is constantly being reset or “frozen” in 1984 then our Survivors time on the island is not moving one bit while the rest of the world moves on. In the next LOST TIDBITS I hope to explain how the Stopwatch Theory allows the Others years and years of background checks it would take to accumulate files on all the Survivors.
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Enjoy,
KC
Saturday, October 4, 2008
LT133: Pushing the Button
Today’s blog is at the end of a long, long day, so I’m going to do my best to layout a theory about LOST that is a work in progress. Let’s call it the “Stopwatch Theory”.
NLF COMBINE
LOST is always on the forefront of my mind. So, I’m watching football this weekend and something makes me think of those NFL combines. A combine is the try-out for college athletes who have a good chance at being drafted. The college graduates show up at one of the combines and execute a series of speed, strength, and skill tests. Most the NFL teams send a scout to conduct their own tests on each future draftee and report their findings back to the people in each organization who is responsible for making their draft day decisions.
LOST comes in because I think of two NFL scouts – one from the Chicago Bears and one from the Miami Dolphins – standing at the finish line of a 40-yard dash. They are timing a well-regarded wide receiver from Iowa. On the signal, the player takes off and runs as fast as he can. As the player crosses the finish line, the scouts will PUSH THE BUTTON to stop their stopwatches.
The scout from the Dolphins records a time of 4.3 and the Bears’ scout records a slower time of 4.4 (which makes sense when you consider the Bears are always a little slower than the Dolphins as any NFL fan knows!).
Which time is correct?
ORIGIN OF THE STOPWATCH THEORY
Consider with me the various arguments that could be made for either time being the correct time.
What does “correct” mean? We have a philosophical debate on our hands. Without belaboring the finer points, let’s just appreciate who two guys with very large brains could argue what “correct” means until the cows come home. We can picture that scene in our heads. We understand the debate even if it might more us. If you are thinking two politicians at a debate, then you are getting the same idea of how of endless arguments almost designed to purposefully NOT reach a consensus. But, I’m jaded, so let’s get back to point…
This stopwatch scenario is the origin of the Stopwatch Theory.
THE DOLPHINS HAVE IT RIGHT
Supporters of the Dolphins stopwatch reading of 4.3 seconds to run the 40-yard dash could argue that it must be the correct time because you can’t get a faster time than the shortest time.
This point requires many assumptions such as the scouts started the stopwatches at the same time and the proper time (when the wide receiver began to run). We then assume that neither scout stopped their stopwatch prematurely (before the runner completed the distance). If those two assumptions are accurate, then the faster time has to be correct because you can’t get any slower time than the fastest recorded (gain, assuming the assumptions are accurate).
What this argument also proves is that the Bear scout pushed the button slower or later than the more accurate Dolphin scout.
THE BEARS HAVE IT RIGHT
The proponents of the Bear’s time must argue for margin of error. This then makes the 4.4 seconds the correct time. Humans always struggle with numbers even in simple tasks. Whenever we need to deal with a one-time chore, we tend to desire accuracy more. For example, you want to carpet a room. You measure the width and length and reach your number. But everyone with experience will tell you to estimate higher square feet.
In other words, it is better to plan for a guy to run a pass route at 4.4 speed and have him be able to execute at 4.3 speed, then it is to expect 4.3 and then be disappointed with the slower speed. To error of the safe side, fans of the Bears time will argue, “Both sides agree that he is able to run at 4.4, so that is a fact. Only half of us believe he can run that distance in 4.3, so the correct time is the time universally accepted and builds in a margin of error on the safe side.”
BOTH ARE CORRECT
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and the same is true of time. Imagine the two scouts do to competitiveness nature of evaluating NFL talent, do not share their times so they are unaware there even was a discrepancy? Then each believes they have the correct time on their stopwatches.
Time, therefore, is established by the observer. The Miami scout observed 4.3 and the Bears observed 4.4 for the same event. Both are correct since the correct answer is different for each. Or something like that.
Consider our own experiences with time. The word day literally drags on and on and time just seems to crawl. Yet our weekends fly by. Our brains realize the second hand is not spinning any faster or slower, it is merely the perception of the observer. A wife who thinks the time flies during the opera can’t experience a faster moving time while the spouse thinks this night will never end. Not if they are at the same opera anyway. No, time moves the same “speed” for everyone, but it is perceived differently.
So, both NFL scouts times are correct. Correct to the scout. We, as third party observer, then have a different perspective in that we observe both times. Which one then is right for us? This is what was answered in the two sections above – well, not answered, but presented.
TWO STOPWATCHES
Picture you are holding two stopwatches. You PUSH THE BUTTON to start them at exactly the same time. We will label the stopwatches Left and Right to help us identify them. Most stopwatches have three buttons: Start, Stop and Reset.
If you are like me, then you are picking out some key LOST words: stop, watch, time, button, and reset. Just thought I’d point that out.
We observe the time increasing on each stopwatch at the same rate. Then after about 108 minutes, we push the Reset button on the Left Stopwatch only. Then we push the Start button to start accumulating its time measurement.
Which stopwatch is has the accurate time? Both are correct, of course, but for their own reason they are different times explained by the fact the Left one was reset. From this point on, every 108 minutes you will reset the Left Stopwatch and start back up again.
NEXT LOST TIDBITS
My intention for this blog was to set the stage for the Stopwatch Theory. In Wednesday’s blog I hope to explain how the two stopwatches explain LOST.
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If you enjoy this post, please click on an ad in the upper-right hand corner on your way out. This also helps be steer content in the direction of those kinds of posts you like. Thanks so much and keep reading!
Enjoy,
KC
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